Roberto Beseler Maxwell
How has your experience been at the Moers Festival?
Zhu Wenbo
I feel it’s a popular festival for non-popular music.
RBM
Because of the big audience and festival format?
ZW
Yes, in China, open-air public music festivals are typically focused on pop or rock music, with little to no experimental elements.
RBM
So that’s surprising to you?
ZW
Not too much, but a few details did surprise me. For example, they pay attention to small details that are easy for the general public to comprehend. I am thinking of very strange elements like the performance of actors dressed as flies. Or when musicians performed on the aerial work platform high in the air. At the same time the music is very experimental. The combination of accessible, audience friendly elements with niche music is new to me.
Jun-Y Ciao
For me, the festival also stands out for its diversity. There are so many different musicians and a wide range of events. Rather than focusing on a specific aesthetic, the emphasis is on overall musical quality. The audience has the freedom to choose what they want to experience. That is a difference. There are no such big festivals in China. Nevertheless there are a few very interesting festivals – some relatively new, others more established – namely A Bunch of Noise in Shanghai, Mini Midi & You and Me Festival in Beijing and the Tomorrow Festival in Shenzhen.
RBM
Do you feel that performing here in Germany is very different from performing in China?
Zhao Cong
Yes, but not too much, I think.
ZW
For me the performance is no different.
RBM
And what about the interaction with the audience?
ZW
The audience in Germany is better. There are more people than in China and they are more focused. This is improving in China, but 10 or 15 years ago it was still very chaotic.
ZC
I think the local audience here is more experienced, as they have the history and background of listening to this kind of music
RBM
And that’s not the case in China?
JC
The scene as a whole in China has a shorter history, which also means the audience tends to be younger. Before that, in the late 80s, we had a little Rock music influence. Then in the mid-90s we began receiving more information from Europe and Japan, which helped lay the foundation for an experimental music scene.
RBM
Do you feel there is something the German scene can learn from the Chinese?
Matthias Kaiser
Not only on aesthetic questions, but also on the organizational side. There are many small venues that are genuinely enthusiastic about putting on concerts on short notice. In contrast, in Germany, when you ask for a date, one typical response is: ‚We’re fully booked, try again next year.‘ So there is a lot more attention and interest in making things happen spontaneously.
JC
In Germany, you need more time to organize concerts. But in China it is much more flexible. We can plan events in a short time.
RBM
Could that also be related to the fact that there’s no official funding system for this kind of music?
ZW
Maybe. Yes, in China there is no funding or government support. If you want to do this kind of music you are not going to earn much so you have to be passionate about it. It’s not a business. Many musicians have day jobs to support their musical activities.
JC
Most activities are independently organized. We arrange many of the concerts ourselves and simply split the ticket revenue among everyone involved. I’d say over 90% of the concerts operate this way. The other 10% are concerts in museums for example. They usually have a small budget.
RBM
And do you see advantages in this?
JC
Yes, the musicians usually do it for themselves first. It’s in their free time so it entails a lot of freedom.
RBM
Do you feel there are aesthetic differences?
ZW
Yes, but it’s difficult to say what they are.
MK
I feel the approach is different. Their way of improvisation and the appropriation of sound is distinct. I have been reflecting about these things and also adjusted a lot of my playing due to this influence. I think what they are doing is a somewhat more ontological way of sound finding, to use a philosophical term. They take the instrument and explore what naturally emerges from it, directly from the source. That’s exactly what I experienced this morning when you were singing. The sound seemed to come straight from its origin, from where it first began to exist. And that’s a very different experience.
RBM
Yes, I wasn’t expecting you to sing. That surprised me and maybe I’m now realizing it has to do with that.
JC
I think we learn and play the same instruments, so we’re learning the same language, but we try to find another way to express and formulate. This difference stems from differences in cultural backgrounds and philosophy.
ZW
I actually don’t know the German scene too well, but the musicians I saw in Cologne and Berlin sounded harder or sharper. I feel my music and that of other Chinese colleagues is generally softer.
MK
You take what’s there and try to nurture it, without spoiling or diminishing it. In a way, it’s very simple, the tools are basic, yet the result sounds incredibly alive.
RBM
I find your sound to be very textural. It’s where the quality lies for me. It’s not so much about the specific pitch, intervals or harmony but more about the actual sound itself.
MK
Another big part, I think, is how you think about silence. You have much greater respect for it. This is one thing that constitutes your music: to play nothing as an integral part of performing and to listen to others or just to your surroundings.
RBM
What is silence to you?
ZW
That’s a big question. It’s a part of sound.
MK
It’s the behavior of not saying something or not producing an own sound.
ZW
I think silence also depends on where you use it. In some places we play it’s never truly quiet. If you open the window you can hear traffic and the outside world. Sometimes we incorporate these elements into our concerts by opening the window and letting the sounds come in while playing very quietly or simply doing nothing. So, it’s not silence in the traditional sense. In a way, it becomes another kind of sound itself.
JC
Thinking about silence while performing is very important. It actually has the same value as playing.
ZW
Yes, I also find that during a performance, the moments when I’m not playing give me a chance to think about what comes next.
JC
For example, in our culture, when it comes to traditional painting, the white space, as in the empty paper, is valued just as much as the black ink or paint. This cultural perspective makes it easier to understand the act of not playing as part of music.
ZW
Actually in China there is a word to express “to keep something empty or blank”：留白.
RBM
You use it also when talking about music?
ZW
Yes and not only in experimental music but also in pop music.
RBM
Do you feel there’s more to be explored together in the future?
MK
Yes, a lot. Foremost sensitivity.
JC
But we should also communicate more with each other to build stronger connections between the two scenes. Nowadays, with the internet, it’s easier than ever to connect, and people in China can access more information about the European scenes and vice versa. Maybe we should start paying attention to what’s happening on the other side of the globe!
This article is brought to you as part of the EM GUIDE project – an initiative dedicated to empowering independent music magazines and strengthen the underground music scene in Europe. Read more about the project at emgui.de
Funded by the European Union. Views and opinions expressed are however those of the author(s) only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union or the European Education and Culture Executive Agency (EACEA). Neither the European Union nor EACEA can be held responsible for them.